A Conversation with Dr. Andrea Warner-Czyz!

Join me with Dr. Andrea Warner-Czyz for a conversation about the role of social skills and emotional regulation as it relates to children and adolescents who are deaf and hard of hearing.  Dr. Warner-Czyz is an Associate Professor in the Department of Speech, Language, and Hearing in the School of Behavioral and Brain Sciences at The University of Texas at Dallas.  In this engaging episode, Andrea shares about her research, peer victimization, and strategies that can be implemented to foster building self-esteem and advocacy through intentional practices and connectivity. 

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For transcripts of this episode- visit the podcast website at: https://empowearaudiology.buzzsprout.com

Transcript

Announcer: [00:00:00] Welcome to episode 64 of empowEAR Audiology with Dr. Carrie Spangler.

Carrie: [00:00:15] Welcome to the empowEAR Audiology podcast, a production of the 3C Digital Media Network. I am your host, Dr. Carrie Spangler, a passionate, deaf and hard of hearing audiologist. Each episode will bring an empowering message surrounding audiology and beyond. Thank you for spending time with me today and let's get started with today's episode. Okay, today I have with me a friend and colleague, Dr. Andrea Warner-Czyz, and she is an associate professor in the Department of Speech, Language and Hearing in the School of Behavioral and Brain Sciences at the University of Texas in Dallas. Her research investigates communication and quality of life in children and adolescents who are deaf and hard of hearing, and use cochlear implants. Her primary, um professional goal centers on a whole person approach drawing and speech language, pathology, psychology, and audiology to develop data driven recommendations to improve social well-being in patients who are deaf and hard of hearing. So, Andrea, welcome to the podcast.

Andrea: [00:01:29] Thanks so much for having me.

Carrie: [00:01:31] I'm excited. I know we've been trying to coordinate our schedules for this podcast for, I don't know, some time now.

Andrea: [00:01:39] It's been a while. Yes, but I'm excited to be here.

Carrie: [00:01:42] I'm excited to have you. And I was kind of trying to figure out when we met. I felt like it was at an ASHA convention initially.

Andrea: [00:01:51] That sounds about right. Yeah, that was a long time ago, too. I think we met through a friend of a friend, but I can't remember who the intermediary was. But thank you to whoever it was they.

Carrie: [00:02:02] Were, they were great, whoever it was. So, um, but I am so glad to have you today. And one of the things that I usually ask my podcast guests who have gotten into the field of, um, hearing sciences or audiology, do you have a backstory of choosing audiology?

Andrea: [00:02:23] I wish I had something like there was someone who was super inspirational when I was a kid, and it really wasn't that. When I was in undergrad, I wasn't quite sure what I wanted to do. I thought I wanted to do journalism, and then that wasn't for me. And I went and talked to my advisor and and she asked me what I wanted, and I said I wanted to work with something that would let me work with people that I could do psychology and something science wise. And she told me to take this intro class to speech and hearing, and that was it. I was completely hooked after that. It was that one little introductory class at University of Illinois, and I. It just made sense. It was one of those things that just clicked. And, um, and then when I started my master's program in audiology, which I didn't know if I wanted to do audiology or speech, to be honest, which probably makes sense why I do what I do, because it's not all hearing, like all audiology, and it's not really speech and language, and it kind of has psychology mixed in. And that's just the intersection that makes me happiest. I think that's where you really get to see where things come to fruition in the real world.

Carrie: [00:03:30] Yeah, yeah. No, that is great. That one person, an adviser, just said, take this class and it changed the whole trajectory for your profession. So that is awesome. And, um, yeah. So one of you kind of going into that, that research around that quality of life and your passion for that research to, uh, as it relates to cochlear implants and quality of life, you also run a lab at the university called the CHILL Lab. Can you share a little bit more about that?

Andrea: [00:04:07] Absolutely. So, um, it's called the Children and Infant Listening Lab. And so when we started it, it was all about the infants and we were studying babies. And that was really fun. Um, I loved the babies. But then I realized as my kids were getting older, the age of my participants also got a little bit older. Um, and then I got to adolescence, and it was absolute heaven, which I know nobody says that because who likes adolescence, but I actually really, really do. Um, but what we have done, we've looked at speech perception and music perception. We've looked at speech and language outcomes, and then quality of life has really been the stalwart for like the last 15 years. And really, like I said before, that's where I feel like everything kind of comes together. Um, and part of it came from what I was hearing from the parents, where the parents were telling me their children were having this issue, or they're having trouble making friends, or they didn't feel like they yeah, they just didn't feel like they were fitting in or how they were communicating. And I think all of that from getting the information from the parents and then just talking to the kids themselves, that really has changed what I look at, just really listening to them, I think that's the most important part, is learning from them what what they want or what they're experiencing helps change what I do as well.

Carrie: [00:05:27] Yeah. And I know today for the podcast, we really wanted to take a deeper dive into the role of social skills and emotion regulation and relation to children and adolescents who are deaf and hard of hearing. So how do deaf and hard of hearing children or adolescents, their social skills compare to their counterparts who have typical hearing?

Andrea: [00:05:51] Yeah, so it's been really interesting. There's not a ton of work on that. Um, in looking at their social skills, I think part of it really stems from language. And do they have the language skills to be able to communicate with their peers? And I think one of the most striking, um, pieces that I got was actually from a parent who said that their child was communicating that their best friends were always 1 to 2 years younger than they were. And so then it made me think, is that a language issue? Is it a social skills issue? Um, so a lot of the research has been trying to really disentangle what's going on with them. What we know about social skills is that the they have more difficulty making and maintaining friends. They tend to report more peer problems, like they're getting picked on more, or they're just more socially isolated or lonely. And that's kind of been what's what's been reported for the last 40 plus years. And that didn't matter if they were using hearing aids, if they were signing, what kind of residential school they were in, you know, was it general education or residential? It didn't really matter. Those were the types of things that kept coming out. So that's still the case. Even with as good as our technology is and early identification of hearing loss, we're still seeing some issues that kind of need to be teased apart, in my opinion. Yeah.

Carrie: [00:07:16] And it's interesting because like what you just said, we have early intervention and newborn hearing screening and technology, and a lot of these kids are probably graduating from like a more clinic program for their maybe speech and language skills. However, how does that translate into the real world then? Do you have anything to say about that?

Andrea: [00:07:41] I, I do, I think we prepare them really well to respond to us when we're when we're in the Audiologic booth and they're, you know, responding to questions. And it's really kind of a contrived situation. So even if they have noise, it's a really controlled and they know what to expect. They know exactly what's coming. And in speech and language testing, they can do really well on those tests, but they get all the time in the world, they can have as much time as they want, and that's not what real conversation is like. So even if they do really well in the clinic, I don't think those skills are always 100% transferring over, especially when they're communicating with people their own age versus adults who are going to fill in those gaps for them. So I don't want anyone to think that I'm saying they're doing horribly, and I don't mean that at all, but there is a little bit of a disconnect between or there can be a disconnect between how they're performing in clinic and how they're performing with their peers in day to day. Interactions.

Carrie: [00:08:44] Yeah. And does their level of auditory status impact that at all? I know you said, um, you know, as far as, like peer victimization and things like that, it really, you know, was kind of the same. But is there any evidence with that?

Andrea: [00:09:05] Do you mean like if they're deaf and signing versus using hearing aids or cochlear versus cochlear implants? Is that.

Carrie: [00:09:11] Yeah, that or like unilateral or mild versus more severe to profound.

Andrea: [00:09:17] So that's a really good question. Most of the kids in my studies are ones who are have severe to profound hearing loss, who use cochlear implants. So in our peer victimization study, we also had children who used hearing aids. So there was a broader degree of hearing, um, access for that particular study. But most of what I do is is working with children who have and adolescents with cochlear implants. Um, so is there a difference in in our study for peer victimization? There wasn't a difference. If they used hearing aids versus cochlear implants, there didn't seem to be a big difference between them. Um. I can't answer that question. I'm not trying to avoid it. I just can't answer it.

Carrie: [00:10:01] Maybe there isn't an answer for that. Um, right now, I was just curious if there there happened to be anything, you know, related to that challenge or whatever. Um, well, you know, we kind of shared about, like, the difference between clinic and then going into the real world setting. Um, and you mentioned how, um, communication is really different outside of the audiology booth. So what are some of those common challenges that you've heard from parents or from students, um, facing, you know, the real world situation for those social interactions?

Andrea: [00:10:40] So I think one of the big ones is with when we as adults are working with these children, if they're struggling, if they're if they need a moment to process that information, we are willing to be patient and wait for that. And that's not necessarily what you're going to get. So I think the timing is a big part of that, that temporal, um, access to the information and response time. So if they're taking a little bit of time to process what they've heard, especially in a noisy environment, that's going to throw off the timing of the conversation. So I think it's partly that, um, I think communication breakdowns for them to recognize the problem there, a breakdown has occurred and to know what to do about it and to do something about it. That's a three part task that they don't always do. Sometimes they just don't feel comfortable. They're worried about what other people are going to think about them, and so they're more willing just to let it slide and not get the information they need to participate in the conversation. Um, I think the other thing is opportunities for them to have to practice those skills.

Andrea: [00:11:46] So there was a a kid, he was in ninth grade, and I just remember him telling me point blank that the first five years of his life he spent going to therapy and and getting his device, he had cochlear implants and working with his audiologist and his speech language pathologist and this therapist and that therapist. And he spent all the time doing that, and he didn't spend the time in playgroups and learning how to play with others his own age and, and how to navigate the social situations with his peers. And for me, that was, you know, coming from a ninth grade boy who would have thought I'd ever say I really learned from from this ninth grade boy, but I really did, because it was such a huge aspect that we spend so much time with them in, in clinic and in therapy that they need to be kids also, and, and making sure that they're really fostering that aspect as well. I think it's important to emphasize that to parents, too. Um.

Carrie: [00:12:44] Yeah, that's a really good thing to learn from a ninth grader. I mean, that's huge to learn that. What are some. So, you know, you talk about the clinic and going to the real world, but what are some techniques or strategies that parents or educators or, you know, maybe related service providers that are working with these students in the more inclusive school environments? What could they be doing to maybe help build this in a different way?

Andrea: [00:13:20] So I think one of them is to make sure that there are those social activities with other kids their own age. And there was a mom years ago, and she said she felt like she had to be the concierge, so she would be the one that would arrange for the play dates or the Or when they got older, to go to the amusement park or go to the mall or whatever it was, because then, number one, she always knew that her kids were going to be included. And number two, she could also, um, make sure that, you know, those things were happening and that she could kind of be around in case they needed some help with those interactions. So I think making sure that they're involved in those activities, if they can be involved in some type of group, seems to be another one. Um, so that could be a sports team. It could be, um, band if they like music, you know, there are different ways that you can do that. It could be in any other type of group. Um, the other so those are things that parents can do, what clinicians can do. I know that there are certain groups, um, certain cochlear implant teams or teams for children who are deaf and hard of hearing, and they have social groups for their kids. And so they let them all get together. And that way they get to be with other children who are deaf and hard of hearing. They get to do something together, and they get to see that they're not the only ones also, but it gives them a kind of a place away from clinic that they get to practice those social skills.

Carrie: [00:14:47] Yeah, and it's such an important part of the whole person picture when they realize that they're not the only one and that they can kind of develop some positive self esteem in that way, too.

Andrea: [00:15:01] I think that's also oh, sorry, something that you see with the a lot of the kids in general education is a lot of times they don't have other peers who are deaf and hard of hearing in their class. And so having that reminder that that they aren't the only one that you can get that through those local groups. There's also lots of camps. And I know you, you have a camp, um, where you are, and I've been working in camps in Dallas and in Colorado as well. And I think that's another place not just for the kids, but also for the families to get more information on. And, and just, I don't know, learn, learn from each other. I think they learn from each other sometimes better than they learn from us, to be honest.

Carrie: [00:15:43] Yeah, well, I think that's true. No matter, um, whether they are deaf or hard of hearing or typical, um, they're going to learn from, from their peers more than they're going to learn from adults. But, you know, you're saying that and I love that you are so involved at your place as well with that social groups and connecting teens and kids together, because I that was a huge part of what I was missing, like growing up as someone that had hearing aids and going to a general or, you know, my neighborhood school, never knowing anyone else. Um, and it really impacted me, um, socially and emotionally through especially those transitional years of going, you know, trying to figure out who I am as a teenager and then thinking I'm the only one in the entire world that has to wear hearing aids and really kind of propelled me into making sure that the kids that I get to work with are connected in some way. And I feel like even if they're connected once with someone just realizing that they're not the only one one time, it could make a huge impact.

Andrea: [00:16:59] It can. And I think also with those camps, they forge those relationships. There are some kids that have gone to the Dallas camp since they were itty bitty like toddlers, and now they're in their 20s and they are still as I there are some of them and they're just still a super close knit group, you know, almost 20 years later, which is pretty amazing that they have just developed that so early. And I think it's it's that bond of having that commonality. Is that why you did that camp? Is that why you guys started the camp up there?

Carrie: [00:17:32] Yeah, I started a program more like a local program. That was a day kind of a thing or a half a day that we would meet a couple times a year, and we would bring middle school and high school kids together and do just self-advocacy, development. So our group was called Alps Now, advocacy, leadership and peer support for deaf and hard of hearing. And it's like, um, I want to say it's where the magic happens. I mean, you cannot. Replicate what happens in this group any other way, but by bringing them together and you come up with a couple of activities, but you give them the space to be who they are and connect with the others. And like you said, they make these lifelong connections. And with social media and different, you know, things like that, they stay connected. Yeah.

Andrea: [00:18:33] I agree that it is magical. I know we're not supposed to say that because in a way we're setting it up to be that way, but it just is.

Carrie: [00:18:41] It is? Yeah. And I have kids who were, um, you know, dragging their feet. They didn't want to go. And I'm like, just come one time. If you don't like it, you never have to come back. And I would say 95% of them have come back.

Andrea: [00:18:59] Yep.

Carrie: [00:19:00] So the hardest part is getting them there.

Andrea: [00:19:04] I agree I agree.

Carrie: [00:19:07] Yeah. So we talked a lot about like the adolescent phase too. But how important is it to address this early like early intervention and preschool for social skills.

Andrea: [00:19:24] So I think that's what we're looking at right now, because a lot of the research that I've done is really focused on the adolescence. Um, just because they will tell you anything you want to know or things that you don't want to know. Um, which again, is why I like them so much. And I think some of the things that we see. Are things that could be addressed really early. I think a lot of times what we do is as audiologists, we want to make sure they're getting the best signal and speech language pathologists that they have nice, clear articulation and that their language is on par. And that's great. But then that social piece doesn't always fit into the, you know, as far as those high priorities. And I think those early play groups, I think there are things that we can work on in clinic to make sure that they know how to self-advocate early on. I mean, they can tell you when their device is working versus when it's not, or if they're having trouble. I think those are things you can work on really early and teaching them to know how to interact with other people. I think Theory of Mind and some of the not not just being able to identify their own emotions, but to identify emotions in other people. And that's that's a skill that as parents, we need to talk about, too. As you know, when you're reading books or if you get mad about something to explain it and, and explain to them how you're thinking, I mean, you don't have to say I, I'm feeling mad right now, but, you know, but but I'm feeling upset and this is why. And, you know, then they can see this is how someone shows it, either in a movie or a book. Like, I think there are lots of ways that we can address it really early. Um, and there's lots of books on emotional intelligence. I think that's one of my favorite things right now to even in preschool books.

Andrea: [00:21:11] My, um, I mean, I, I vividly remember there's a book called my, My Many Colored Days by Doctor Seuss, which I didn't remember until my kids were little and someone gave them the book. And when you first read it, you think it's all about colors, but it's actually all about emotions, and it attaches the emotions to the different colors. My son read the cover off that book, and I think those are things that I mean, then that was a board book. So those are things really early to have those conversations and if they can recognize it, I think sometimes the children who are deaf and hard of hearing need to be explicitly taught some of those things, and I think those are really good avenues to do it is you can take those little opportunities. It doesn't take a lot of time, but it has a huge impact on how they interact with others, whether they're their own age or whether it's an adult. That was a really long answer. Sorry.

Carrie: [00:22:01] No, that's great, but I know that, um, you know, to add on to that, you have been doing some research kind of in that area, um, with what is it like, more like visual recognition. Recognition and emotions. Do you want to share a little bit about that?

Andrea: [00:22:20] Sure. So what's really interesting when you look at visual emotion recognition. So we show them different faces. And and there was no difference between the groups for visual emotion recognition at all. It like for accuracy or reaction time, they looked exactly the same whether, you know, for static photos. But then when we use dynamic videos and they looked at the image and they had either part of the image or all of the image, there was a difference between the groups. And what I mean by that is that the group with typical hearing, these are all adolescents. The group with typical hearing was faster and had higher accuracy when they had 80% of the video. So they didn't have all the video. They could make the decision and be accurate faster than the group with cochlear implants. So even with visual emotion recognition, they just need a tiny bit longer for the cochlear implant group to be able to get the right emotion identified. Um, for auditory emotion recognition, it's all over the place. But we included, um, kids with typical hearing, with hearing aids, and with cochlear implants. So, um, and we didn't have we need to collect a little bit more data on there. So there's a lot of variability in the deaf and hard of hearing group. But overall they aren't as good as emotion recognition at emotion recognition compared to their peers with typical hearing. And I think Monita Chatterjee has been showing the same exact thing that, um, it's just hard, especially with a cochlear implant, to pick up some of those emotion cues auditorily. And that's when everything's straightforward. But what happens when you have sarcasm and you have a mismatch between what's going on visually and auditorily? And I don't think we've actually nailed that down for how well they do as good at recognizing things like that. When there is a mismatch, I think that's the next thing we need to look at.

Carrie: [00:24:23] Yeah, which kind of makes sense when you think about, um, cochlear implants aren't as good as giving a lot of low frequency information. And when you think about emotions and inflection of people's voices, right, that it would be harder to recognize that, especially if it's a nuance and somebody's being sarcastic and their face doesn't match what they're meaning to say. Right?

Andrea: [00:24:51] Right. And some I mean, there are some people with typical hearing who aren't savvy at that either. They miss it all the time. So you have to pay attention to that too. But I think that's really important for kids who are in middle school and high school because sarcasm and making jokes, I mean, that's that's the bread and butter for that age group, right? I mean, whether they're talking to their parents or to their friends, there's always jokes or sarcasm going on. And so it's really important for them to know how to navigate that as well.

Carrie: [00:25:23] Yeah. Which kind of is a great segue into um, I know you've done some work and some, uh, research in the area of like, bullying and that kind of, uh, you know, written about it. Is there a higher incidence of, um, bullying or peer victimization in this population when compared to, um, typical hearing or other populations?

Andrea: [00:25:54] There. There is. So in the general population, it's about a third will report that they've been picked on at least once. Um, when we look at special populations. So any kids with Exceptionalities, regardless of what that exceptionality is, it's somewhere between about 47 and 70%, depending on the group that's included. Um, and so we ask the same exact questions of children who are deaf and hard of hearing, who used hearing aids or cochlear implants and half of them. So 50% of them said that they had been picked on at least once. So that's compared to it was 28% in the typical hearing population. And the way that they get picked on the most is they they're excluded. They're socially excluded. I should say they feel socially excluded. Now, it doesn't really matter if they were or not, but it's their perception because it's the same sense for them. Right? Um, so yeah. So, uh, it was 20 I think it was five, five times the rate of feeling socially excluded in the group with cochlear implants and hearing aids compared to typical hearing. So 25 versus 5% or something like that. It was crazy. It was it was I was unbelievable how high that was.

Carrie: [00:27:13] Yeah. Which is really important for providers for parents to to recognize that. So how would we as professionals really, um, capture that or make sure that, you know, you have an adolescent coming in and you're doing their annual checkup and then you oh, everything looks great and you have them leave or what else? What else should we be doing?

Andrea: [00:27:44] Well, I'm nosy, so I'm always going to ask about, you know, do you have friends? Do you, do you get along with people? Do you have a boyfriend? Girlfriend? You know, but that's kind of just my personality. I don't think we have to do it from a nosy standpoint. Um, but I think those are questions you can ask. Um, you know, how how are things going at school? Do you have friends? I think those are really valid questions to ask. And if they say they don't have friends, then that's when you can maybe probe a little bit more like, oh, like, you know, are you getting picked on? Is everything okay? I think there's an easy way to do that. And actually, there was a group you were involved with, right? With Carol Flexer and Jane Madell years ago. Um, I remember I think it was Kris English.

Carrie: [00:28:30] Kris English. That's right. Yeah, yeah. And we looked at like and actually had like a bullying questionnaire that you could use in the clinic just to ask some of those questions. And if, like you said, if they said, you know, no, I don't really have any friends. And here's a follow up question, how can you kind of expand and get more information too.

Andrea: [00:28:52] Yes. And I think it's also really important to know, um, that one of the things that came up in our research, we would have the kids complete the surveys on an iPad and sometimes the parents would be around. And some I mean, of course we got consent. Don't worry. Sometimes the parents would, you know, look over their kid's shoulder to see what's happening. And one I remember there was this one parent who came and said, she said that she has lots of friends and that's not true. She only has 1 to 2 friends and the others are acquaintances. And I think that's something else that we need to kind of pull apart. Is are these true friends? Do they have true friends or are they just acquaintances? And do they have someone to kind of share their inner thoughts with, to share time with, to do things after school? And I think sometimes you can dig a little bit more into that, but I think it's more than just do you have friends? I think kind of digging into are these is it a true friendship or not? Is it and is it bi directional? Right.

Andrea: [00:29:51] Do you want to be with each other or not?

Carrie: [00:29:54] Yeah, exactly. Well, and I think that's a bigger like conversation in the general like population for this, this next generation, because they're so involved with their phone and texting and Snapchat. So yeah, you have how many people following you or snapping you. But you could say I have 400 friends, but you haven't talked to anybody in real life.

Andrea: [00:30:22] Oh I yes, yes. I mean it's the same thing for us old people on Facebook, right? Um, I'm friends with lots of people on Facebook, but I'm not really friends with them. I mean, I am, but some of them are really acquaintances at this point. I'm friends with a lot of them. Don't be offended if we're friends on Facebook.

Carrie: [00:30:42] You're going to get all these un friends in a minute.

Andrea: [00:30:44] I know, please don't unfriend me.

Carrie: [00:30:48] Oh, but I think, you know, I when you ask that question in a clinic, it makes.

Andrea: [00:30:57] Yeah. But I but I think those are questions that we can ask. And it doesn't have to be like it's a prying. I mean, these are kids. These are adolescents that you're spending a lot of time with. You know them sometimes they know you and they're more willing to confide in you than maybe there are their parents, because sometimes the parents can become kind of helicoptering and they're so concerned and they, um, push their concerns onto what they're they think their child is thinking, too, right? They, um, what is that called? Do you know? Oh, there. Anyways, so they think that their kids have the same exact concerns that they do, and that's not necessarily the case. So sometimes I think the kids will hold in and not tell the parents if something's going on, but they're more willing to tell you, kind of as a trusted outside adult who is safe to tell things to.

Carrie: [00:31:47] Yeah. And sometimes they might not want the parents to worry or go into the school and maybe make it a bigger deal. I mean, there's probably a lot of that that might be going on as well.

Andrea: [00:32:04] Exactly, projecting. That's a word I wanted.

Carrie: [00:32:07] Yes, projecting. Thank you. I was thinking like executive functioning, but that wasn't it either. Oh, so it's been a long week, right? So we're getting through. Um, but just I guess, you know, we've talked a lot about, like, social skills and and bullying and you know starting early, but are there any other specific strategies or supports that you can kind of think about that we may want to be? Teaching our students or clients.

Andrea: [00:32:47] Um. I do think making sure that they're they're involved in something. Um, when you're on a team and this is kind of across the board, whether it has nothing to do with hearing loss. But basically, if you're on a team or you have, um, some type of group, intramural group, whether it's with the school or outside the school, that kind of gives them a little family where those kids are going to have their back and they have each other's back. And that's something that's been shown in the friendship literature. Um, for kids, with typical hearing in the general population. And I think the same is true for these kids. Um, I do think that's, you know, I expect it to be better in the future, kind of as we go forward, as we have earlier identification, we have earlier fitting of devices and better communication and a lot of these, these kids. So I think kind of the next generation, I would expect that to be better. I think the other thing is this generation, um, is more accepting and more inclusive than I think some past generations. And I think that's something that's going to bode well for these kids, that those things that were viewed as huge differences, you know, when you and I were growing up aren't necessarily as big of a deal. And I think, you know, making them aware. You talked about self-advocacy before, um, having them where they're not necessarily hiding their devices and they're proud of them and they can talk about them. I think that openness really opens up a lot of avenues for them as well.

Carrie: [00:34:25] Yeah. And like you said, that can start in preschool with just like reporting whether or not their devices are on or not working and then building those, you know, developmental self-advocacy skills, which is going to help with their self-perception and identity of who they are and hopefully help with the lesser peer victimization, because they're going to be very confident.

Andrea: [00:34:52] Exactly, and knowing how to describe their hearing loss or their hearing aid or cochlear implant and how it works. You know, these are like glasses for my ears. I think there are things that we can give them the language for, to help them kind of figure out how they want to handle that as well. But it's going to differ. Just like everyone, you know, adults are different. All kids are different too. And so trying to match that strategy with who the child actually is from a temperament standpoint is important to do as well.

Carrie: [00:35:23] Yeah, but what a great skill to develop and be able to role play. Or just like you said, give them some of that language that they would be able to build within themselves and then personalize it as they grow.

Andrea: [00:35:37] Right, absolutely.

Carrie: [00:35:40] So is there anything that I didn't ask you that you were wanting me to ask you.

Andrea: [00:35:50] Oh, I feel I like how this conversation went. It was a little organic and how it evolved, but I feel like this was covering exactly what we had talked about before is just giving a little bit of a shout out to looking at things beyond just speech, language and hearing and how they actually implement those skills in the real world. Um, I think that's just important for us to think about.

Carrie: [00:36:14] Yeah. And I just applaud your work and your passion in this area because it really is the end result, right? We as human beings, we want to be able to interact and have meaningful relationships with other people. And if we're not addressing this, um, and helping support this, then it's going to the outcome isn't going to be the same. So to be able to just, I don't know, have a way to really strategically look at it and then, um, implement it into the clinic setting into the school setting is really important for us. I children who are deaf and hard of hearing because they need that extra support in social and communication a lot of times.

Andrea: [00:37:05] They do, they do. And I think we're the right people to help. But I think it's also important to get the parents involved and sometimes the siblings too. The siblings know a lot more than we give them credit for so yeah.

Andrea: [00:37:17] They're a big key to this as well.

Carrie: [00:37:20] They are. And just to kind of wrap up, are there any like specific resources that you would recommend or networks that you would recommend? I know you talked a little bit about your camp and things like that, but anything that you can think of that people might want to look into.

Andrea: [00:37:41] Sure. So there are camps all over the United States? I'm sure there are around the world too. I just haven't looked into the global global camps. But I think looking into camps is one thing. Looking into local resources for support groups. The Dallas Hearing Foundation, for example, has a teen squad that they get together. And I know you you mentioned that that you have one up in Columbus as well. Um, I think there's also some websites that are really helpful. The supporting success for kids with hearing loss is and I know I'm sure you've talked about that a million times. Um, and there are websites like that I think just provide great resources for the families so they can kind of get what they need and connect with others. There's also lots of groups on Facebook for the parents, and sometimes there's also ones on Reddit. I haven't looked at those in detail, but I think there's good information there as well. But, um, I think pretty much anything online, lots of social media platforms will have different resources for the families.

Carrie: [00:38:48] Yeah, well, Andrea, I thought this was an incredible conversation and a very important conversation to have, um, on the Empower Audiology podcast. And I just want you to I want to thank you for being an incredible guest today. And it was an amazing conversation.

Andrea: [00:39:06] Thank you. It was fun connecting with you, too.

Carrie: [00:39:09] All right. Thank you, listeners, for listening to the Empower Audiology podcast. If you like this, please give a five star review and share it with, um, those who may also benefit from this conversation today. Thank you.

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